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	<title>Comments on: Renafood Redux, or: The Reply Comment that Ate the Blog</title>
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	<link>http://www.catfoodguide.com/2010/03/02/renafood-redux-or-the-reply-comment-that-ate-the-blog/</link>
	<description>Thoughts on Feline Nutrition and Care</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 04 Sep 2010 15:18:49 -0700</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Candy</title>
		<link>http://www.catfoodguide.com/2010/03/02/renafood-redux-or-the-reply-comment-that-ate-the-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-1852</link>
		<dc:creator>Candy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 21:26:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.catfoodguide.com/?p=374#comment-1852</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m glad that you&#039;ve had a transformative experience; however, I think eating right in and of itself works wonders. It&#039;s the problem of confounding factors: it&#039;s impossible to tell if health improvements are the result of a given substance if taking that substance is accompanied by a wide range of healthier behavioral and lifestyle changes. It&#039;s why I&#039;m a fan of double-blind controlled studies, even if they have their own limitations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad that you&#8217;ve had a transformative experience; however, I think eating right in and of itself works wonders. It&#8217;s the problem of confounding factors: it&#8217;s impossible to tell if health improvements are the result of a given substance if taking that substance is accompanied by a wide range of healthier behavioral and lifestyle changes. It&#8217;s why I&#8217;m a fan of double-blind controlled studies, even if they have their own limitations.</p>
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		<title>By: Jewel</title>
		<link>http://www.catfoodguide.com/2010/03/02/renafood-redux-or-the-reply-comment-that-ate-the-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-1848</link>
		<dc:creator>Jewel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 15:12:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.catfoodguide.com/?p=374#comment-1848</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with Dr. Cameron. Man have we experienced what can happen when eating right and taking standard process. It has changed our life!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with Dr. Cameron. Man have we experienced what can happen when eating right and taking standard process. It has changed our life!</p>
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		<title>By: julia</title>
		<link>http://www.catfoodguide.com/2010/03/02/renafood-redux-or-the-reply-comment-that-ate-the-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-1026</link>
		<dc:creator>julia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 May 2010 22:05:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.catfoodguide.com/?p=374#comment-1026</guid>
		<description>love this site update more often if you can...of course i&#039;m sure life is busy. :) rip eric</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>love this site update more often if you can&#8230;of course i&#8217;m sure life is busy. <img src='http://www.catfoodguide.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  rip eric</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://www.catfoodguide.com/2010/03/02/renafood-redux-or-the-reply-comment-that-ate-the-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-279</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 18:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.catfoodguide.com/?p=374#comment-279</guid>
		<description>I kind of wish there was more detail that I could actually look up the literature about and see where they were coming from, but it&#039;s all just science-flavoured snake oil (though in a rather &lt;i&gt;special&lt;/i&gt; twist they go for the nature-detox-flavoured snake oil as well - they should learn to pick and choose!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I kind of wish there was more detail that I could actually look up the literature about and see where they were coming from, but it&#8217;s all just science-flavoured snake oil (though in a rather <i>special</i> twist they go for the nature-detox-flavoured snake oil as well &#8211; they should learn to pick and choose!)</p>
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		<title>By: Candy</title>
		<link>http://www.catfoodguide.com/2010/03/02/renafood-redux-or-the-reply-comment-that-ate-the-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-275</link>
		<dc:creator>Candy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 07:03:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.catfoodguide.com/?p=374#comment-275</guid>
		<description>&quot;If they’re DNA, RNA, or (as the factsheet heavily implies) protein, then giving them orally will be pretty useless if you want them to get into the bloodstream intact.&quot;

Thank you for pointing that out! I&#039;ve meant to in the past, but have completely neglected to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If they’re DNA, RNA, or (as the factsheet heavily implies) protein, then giving them orally will be pretty useless if you want them to get into the bloodstream intact.&#8221;</p>
<p>Thank you for pointing that out! I&#8217;ve meant to in the past, but have completely neglected to.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://www.catfoodguide.com/2010/03/02/renafood-redux-or-the-reply-comment-that-ate-the-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-272</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 23:23:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.catfoodguide.com/?p=374#comment-272</guid>
		<description>Stephanie: there&#039;s a huge jump between that JAMA paper (whose recommendations are pretty sensible and fairly conservative) and the claims Standard Process make which pretty much amount to inventing new biological processes in order to have some new product to sell. 

I&#039;d be interested to see the paper where they provide &quot;cellular determinants&quot; orally to cats and demonstrate the effects; I&#039;d always assumed that one of the key features of the transcription factors that are involved in embryonic development was that they&#039;re not present at the same concentration across the whole organism. OK, so maybe these are a different kind of thing, but we&#039;re not told. If they&#039;re DNA, RNA, or (as the factsheet heavily implies) protein, then giving them orally will be pretty useless if you want them to get into the bloodstream intact. Add to that the fact that they&#039;re from a different species, and this is starting to look like the sort of extraordinary claim that epigramattically requires extraordinary evidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephanie: there&#8217;s a huge jump between that JAMA paper (whose recommendations are pretty sensible and fairly conservative) and the claims Standard Process make which pretty much amount to inventing new biological processes in order to have some new product to sell. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d be interested to see the paper where they provide &#8220;cellular determinants&#8221; orally to cats and demonstrate the effects; I&#8217;d always assumed that one of the key features of the transcription factors that are involved in embryonic development was that they&#8217;re not present at the same concentration across the whole organism. OK, so maybe these are a different kind of thing, but we&#8217;re not told. If they&#8217;re DNA, RNA, or (as the factsheet heavily implies) protein, then giving them orally will be pretty useless if you want them to get into the bloodstream intact. Add to that the fact that they&#8217;re from a different species, and this is starting to look like the sort of extraordinary claim that epigramattically requires extraordinary evidence.</p>
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		<title>By: Candy</title>
		<link>http://www.catfoodguide.com/2010/03/02/renafood-redux-or-the-reply-comment-that-ate-the-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-271</link>
		<dc:creator>Candy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 21:25:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.catfoodguide.com/?p=374#comment-271</guid>
		<description>&quot;Bottom line, nutrition on the cellular level is important, excuse me mandatory, in any disease state.&quot;

I&#039;d just like to point out that nutrition on every level is important in any state.

&quot;Attend any national or international vet conference for continueing education, and you will be pounded with evidence based medicine supporting the use of supplements in both the treatment of and prevention of, chronic disease and disorders.&quot;

I don&#039;t think I make any sort of argument that vitamin supplements don&#039;t work, or that nutritional deficiencies don&#039;t exist or don&#039;t adversely affect health. In fact, here&#039;s what I said in this article:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Furthermore, while accepting the relatively uncontroversial assertion that some chronic diseases are linked to nutritional deficiencies or other bad dietary practices, it doesn’t necessarily follow that taking commercial vitamin or glandular supplements will cure or correct the conditions. (Diabetes mellitus comes to mind; so do certain types of liver cirrhosis and gout.)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Let me put it another way: some diseases due to malnutrition or bad dietary habits are amenable to being fixed with nutritional supplementation. Other diseases due to malnutrition and bad dietary habits aren&#039;t. 

I&#039;d also like to say that if a person is suffering from, say, lack of vitamins A, eating various foods rich in beta-carotene and vitamin A would probably fix the deficiency just as well as nutritional supplements. The article you link to note that most people probably don&#039;t consume optimal amounts of vitamins via diet alone, but this doesn&#039;t necessarily make an argument to take supplements--I&#039;d argue that this is an argument for most of us (the ones without clinical problems) to examine our diet and to create one that&#039;s full of nutrient-dense, fresh whole foods.

Please note that I&#039;m not arguing that nutritional supplements have no place in the treatment of disease, or for the prevention of disorders. Some people with certain types of anemia or with certain fat metabolism problems just plain can&#039;t consume enough of the relevant vitamins and minerals from diet alone (B vitamins and iron in the case of anemia, A and D in the case of the fat metabolism disorder). If you take a cursory look at this blog, I think you&#039;ll find that I talk at obnoxious length about the utility of adding certain sorts of nutritional supplements to cat food. 

I hope all of this makes clear that I&#039;m specifically skeptical that Renafood works, and that it works in the way Standard Process claims it does (detoxification + protomorphogens), largely because the claimed mechanisms don&#039;t comport with what I and what biochemists I&#039;ve talked to know about science. Again, if somebody wants to point to credible research regarding herbal detox and how protomorphogens work, I&#039;ll be more than happy to review it and retract any statements.

Also note that I don&#039;t think Renafood does any &lt;i&gt;harm&lt;/i&gt;. I just don&#039;t think it does any good, either, at least based on publicly-available information.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Bottom line, nutrition on the cellular level is important, excuse me mandatory, in any disease state.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;d just like to point out that nutrition on every level is important in any state.</p>
<p>&#8220;Attend any national or international vet conference for continueing education, and you will be pounded with evidence based medicine supporting the use of supplements in both the treatment of and prevention of, chronic disease and disorders.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think I make any sort of argument that vitamin supplements don&#8217;t work, or that nutritional deficiencies don&#8217;t exist or don&#8217;t adversely affect health. In fact, here&#8217;s what I said in this article:</p>
<blockquote><p>Furthermore, while accepting the relatively uncontroversial assertion that some chronic diseases are linked to nutritional deficiencies or other bad dietary practices, it doesn’t necessarily follow that taking commercial vitamin or glandular supplements will cure or correct the conditions. (Diabetes mellitus comes to mind; so do certain types of liver cirrhosis and gout.)</p></blockquote>
<p>Let me put it another way: some diseases due to malnutrition or bad dietary habits are amenable to being fixed with nutritional supplementation. Other diseases due to malnutrition and bad dietary habits aren&#8217;t. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d also like to say that if a person is suffering from, say, lack of vitamins A, eating various foods rich in beta-carotene and vitamin A would probably fix the deficiency just as well as nutritional supplements. The article you link to note that most people probably don&#8217;t consume optimal amounts of vitamins via diet alone, but this doesn&#8217;t necessarily make an argument to take supplements&#8211;I&#8217;d argue that this is an argument for most of us (the ones without clinical problems) to examine our diet and to create one that&#8217;s full of nutrient-dense, fresh whole foods.</p>
<p>Please note that I&#8217;m not arguing that nutritional supplements have no place in the treatment of disease, or for the prevention of disorders. Some people with certain types of anemia or with certain fat metabolism problems just plain can&#8217;t consume enough of the relevant vitamins and minerals from diet alone (B vitamins and iron in the case of anemia, A and D in the case of the fat metabolism disorder). If you take a cursory look at this blog, I think you&#8217;ll find that I talk at obnoxious length about the utility of adding certain sorts of nutritional supplements to cat food. </p>
<p>I hope all of this makes clear that I&#8217;m specifically skeptical that Renafood works, and that it works in the way Standard Process claims it does (detoxification + protomorphogens), largely because the claimed mechanisms don&#8217;t comport with what I and what biochemists I&#8217;ve talked to know about science. Again, if somebody wants to point to credible research regarding herbal detox and how protomorphogens work, I&#8217;ll be more than happy to review it and retract any statements.</p>
<p>Also note that I don&#8217;t think Renafood does any <i>harm</i>. I just don&#8217;t think it does any good, either, at least based on publicly-available information.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephanie</title>
		<link>http://www.catfoodguide.com/2010/03/02/renafood-redux-or-the-reply-comment-that-ate-the-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-270</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephanie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 20:59:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.catfoodguide.com/?p=374#comment-270</guid>
		<description>Yes, you are right.  You are not a biologist, a chemist, a clinical nutritionist or even a vet.  Hard for everyone to be experts in everything isn&#039;t it?  Going through law school, I bet you especially understand this point.

Bottom line, nutrition on the cellular level is important, excuse me mandatory, in any disease state.  I have seen first hand what nutrition can do, what Standard Process and other similar products can do, when medicine alone won&#039;t fix the problem. I do hope that other cat owners will seek out the advice of a professional before drawing similar conclusions.  That is assuming you have not treated as many cats in your day as Dr. Cameron has? 

Oh and the research is out there, just gotta look:     http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/287/23/3127 
Attend any national or international vet conference for continueing education, and you will be pounded with evidence based medicine supporting the use of supplements in both the treatment of and prevention of, chronic disease and disorders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, you are right.  You are not a biologist, a chemist, a clinical nutritionist or even a vet.  Hard for everyone to be experts in everything isn&#8217;t it?  Going through law school, I bet you especially understand this point.</p>
<p>Bottom line, nutrition on the cellular level is important, excuse me mandatory, in any disease state.  I have seen first hand what nutrition can do, what Standard Process and other similar products can do, when medicine alone won&#8217;t fix the problem. I do hope that other cat owners will seek out the advice of a professional before drawing similar conclusions.  That is assuming you have not treated as many cats in your day as Dr. Cameron has? </p>
<p>Oh and the research is out there, just gotta look:     <a href="http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/287/23/3127" rel="nofollow">http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/287/23/3127</a><br />
Attend any national or international vet conference for continueing education, and you will be pounded with evidence based medicine supporting the use of supplements in both the treatment of and prevention of, chronic disease and disorders.</p>
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